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	<title>Comments on: Village Voice Pazz &amp; Jop 2009: For the Hipster in You</title>
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	<description>Hearing Is Believing</description>
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		<title>By: George Bounacos</title>
		<link>http://www.sonicclash.com/village-voice-pazz-jop-2010-for-the-hipster-in-you/comment-page-1/#comment-2400</link>
		<dc:creator>George Bounacos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jan 2010 14:01:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sonicclash.com/?p=5296#comment-2400</guid>
		<description>The Roots get ignored by everyone except other musicians and people who love music.  90% of America didn&#039;t know who they were until they joined Jimmy Fallon&#039;s show.  And they were the most accessibly mainstream act in that group.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Totally with you on Bono too, but he was never exactly Elvis Costello or Sting in the lyrics department.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Roots get ignored by everyone except other musicians and people who love music.  90% of America didn&#39;t know who they were until they joined Jimmy Fallon&#39;s show.  And they were the most accessibly mainstream act in that group.</p>
<p>Totally with you on Bono too, but he was never exactly Elvis Costello or Sting in the lyrics department.</p>
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		<title>By: mjheyliger</title>
		<link>http://www.sonicclash.com/village-voice-pazz-jop-2010-for-the-hipster-in-you/comment-page-1/#comment-2401</link>
		<dc:creator>mjheyliger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jan 2010 13:57:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sonicclash.com/?p=5296#comment-2401</guid>
		<description>And you can&#039;t even attribute that to their breakup! Glen and Marketa were making &quot;sad bastard&quot; music while they were still a couple!!&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I will co-sign your designation of &quot;No Line&quot; as boring. It was something of a challenging listen, which I think was Bono&#039;s intention anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And you can&#39;t even attribute that to their breakup! Glen and Marketa were making &#8220;sad bastard&#8221; music while they were still a couple!!</p>
<p>I will co-sign your designation of &#8220;No Line&#8221; as boring. It was something of a challenging listen, which I think was Bono&#39;s intention anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: discoinfernal</title>
		<link>http://www.sonicclash.com/village-voice-pazz-jop-2010-for-the-hipster-in-you/comment-page-1/#comment-2324</link>
		<dc:creator>discoinfernal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jan 2010 06:48:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sonicclash.com/?p=5296#comment-2324</guid>
		<description>*I&#039;ll admit that calling &quot;No Line on the Horizon&quot; and &quot;21st Century Breakdown&quot; crap might have been a bit harsh. &quot;No Line&quot; isn&#039;t a bad record by any means, it&#039;s just—boring. Very very boring. And honestly, does Bono even try to write lyrics anymore? The Green record actually has a few killer songs, but for the most part it&#039;s just a bloated rewrite of “American Idiot.”&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;*I didn&#039;t necessarily mean that to be a swipe at Jay-Z, Mos Def or Raekwon, but those choices seemed more like “the token hip-hop records” than honest representations of what the genre offered us in &#039;09. I&#039;m not going to pretend that I&#039;m some sort of b-boy guru, but the rock press&#039; efforts to integrate hip-hop into these lists always seems disingenuous to me. For example, in their end-of-the-zeros retrospective, Stylus Magazine mentioned damn near every album Ghostface Killah has recorded this decade (as well records from the Clipse and Missy Elliott); yet there wasn&#039;t a single nod to The Roots, Nas, Talib Kweli or even Common. They do this all the time, and it irks the crap out of me to no end.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;*I tried to find some kind of date as to when this list was compiled and posted. Since I didn&#039;t see one anywhere, I&#039;m just going to be cynical and assume that Jay and Chesnutt were given instant “dead artist” cred and bumped thirty or forty spots higher than they would&#039;ve gotten otherwise.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;*Agreed on Swell Season. No one did sad bastard music better in &#039;09 than Glen and Markéta.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>*I&#39;ll admit that calling &#8220;No Line on the Horizon&#8221; and &#8220;21st Century Breakdown&#8221; crap might have been a bit harsh. &#8220;No Line&#8221; isn&#39;t a bad record by any means, it&#39;s just—boring. Very very boring. And honestly, does Bono even try to write lyrics anymore? The Green record actually has a few killer songs, but for the most part it&#39;s just a bloated rewrite of “American Idiot.”</p>
<p>*I didn&#39;t necessarily mean that to be a swipe at Jay-Z, Mos Def or Raekwon, but those choices seemed more like “the token hip-hop records” than honest representations of what the genre offered us in &#39;09. I&#39;m not going to pretend that I&#39;m some sort of b-boy guru, but the rock press&#39; efforts to integrate hip-hop into these lists always seems disingenuous to me. For example, in their end-of-the-zeros retrospective, Stylus Magazine mentioned damn near every album Ghostface Killah has recorded this decade (as well records from the Clipse and Missy Elliott); yet there wasn&#39;t a single nod to The Roots, Nas, Talib Kweli or even Common. They do this all the time, and it irks the crap out of me to no end.</p>
<p>*I tried to find some kind of date as to when this list was compiled and posted. Since I didn&#39;t see one anywhere, I&#39;m just going to be cynical and assume that Jay and Chesnutt were given instant “dead artist” cred and bumped thirty or forty spots higher than they would&#39;ve gotten otherwise.</p>
<p>*Agreed on Swell Season. No one did sad bastard music better in &#39;09 than Glen and Markéta.</p>
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		<title>By: George Bounacos</title>
		<link>http://www.sonicclash.com/village-voice-pazz-jop-2010-for-the-hipster-in-you/comment-page-1/#comment-2323</link>
		<dc:creator>George Bounacos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 15:47:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sonicclash.com/?p=5296#comment-2323</guid>
		<description>Lily Allen &amp; Ingrid Michaelson and all our choices are why there&#039;s chocolate and vanilla.  I liked &#039;em.  You didn&#039;t.   You like stuff that I don&#039;t.  It&#039;s all good.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;But I must disagree with you about Clive Davis. Sorry, but more than anyone I can think of in the world, he gets a vote at the Grammys.  I&#039;m sorry.  You may not like him either, but had he done 1 little bit of the A&amp;R work he&#039;s done, he would be a music legend.  He&#039;s in the Rock Hall, and I know you don&#039;t care for their choices either, but this comment thread is a great example of why voting for anything is such a big thing.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Remember, Money Mike, more than 40 million people voted for John McCain and Sarah Palin a little over one year ago.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;It&#039;s all about diversity.  :-)&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I know MM knows, but for those who don&#039;t, Clive Davis has run at least 3 (it might be 4 or 5) record companies.  He signed Bruce, Janis, Pink Floyd, Billy Joel, Santana, Whitney, Barry Manilow, Patti Smith, Sarah McLachlan and dozens of others.   If he signs any 2 of them, he gets a vote.  :D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lily Allen &#038; Ingrid Michaelson and all our choices are why there&#39;s chocolate and vanilla.  I liked &#39;em.  You didn&#39;t.   You like stuff that I don&#39;t.  It&#39;s all good.</p>
<p>But I must disagree with you about Clive Davis. Sorry, but more than anyone I can think of in the world, he gets a vote at the Grammys.  I&#39;m sorry.  You may not like him either, but had he done 1 little bit of the A&#038;R work he&#39;s done, he would be a music legend.  He&#39;s in the Rock Hall, and I know you don&#39;t care for their choices either, but this comment thread is a great example of why voting for anything is such a big thing.</p>
<p>Remember, Money Mike, more than 40 million people voted for John McCain and Sarah Palin a little over one year ago.  </p>
<p>It&#39;s all about diversity.  <img src='http://www.sonicclash.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I know MM knows, but for those who don&#39;t, Clive Davis has run at least 3 (it might be 4 or 5) record companies.  He signed Bruce, Janis, Pink Floyd, Billy Joel, Santana, Whitney, Barry Manilow, Patti Smith, Sarah McLachlan and dozens of others.   If he signs any 2 of them, he gets a vote.  <img src='http://www.sonicclash.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: mjheyliger</title>
		<link>http://www.sonicclash.com/village-voice-pazz-jop-2010-for-the-hipster-in-you/comment-page-1/#comment-2321</link>
		<dc:creator>mjheyliger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 14:02:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sonicclash.com/?p=5296#comment-2321</guid>
		<description>Interesting opinions here:&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;*I will agree that the poll reads more like a hipster laundry list than ever before. Not sure why that is. But it amuses me to no end that critic-types (especially on the indie side) slam the masses for having no imagination when it comes to their musical tastes, and then turn around and do the same thing (albeit on a much smaller scale).&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;*I think the poll was completed before Chesnutt or Reatard passed away, so I don&#039;t think we can blame their placements on their passings.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;*I like Mos Def and Jay-Z too, buddy. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;*&quot;No Line on the Horizon&quot; was not a bad album. I revisited it towards the end of last year, and found it to be much more enjoyable than I initially thought it was. That said, it&#039;s easily in the bottom third of U2 albums. &quot;21st Century Breakdown&quot;, on the other hand, sucked. They waited five years to give us a carbon copy of &quot;American Idiot&quot;??&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;*That Swell Season album is a gem, innit? It kinda makes you want to stab yourself in the heart, but it&#039;s really good as far as sad bastard music goes.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;*Lily Allen&#039;s album was terrible. I wasted a LOT of money on music last year, and her album might have been one of my Top Five wastes.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;*I also don&#039;t find Ingrid Michaelson especially unique. To me, she&#039;s just like Colbie Caillat or Sara Bareilles or any other smiley female singer-songwriter. Boring.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;**George, your Grammy argument would hold water if it was solely voted on by musicians and if the musicians that voted were only allowed to vote in genres with which they have knowledge. The bottom line is that the Clive Davises of the world are allowed to vote as well, and they&#039;re going to vote based on money and allegiance and not actual talent. It&#039;s why the Black Eyed Peas have four Grammy Awards and Led Zeppelin has none.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting opinions here:</p>
<p>*I will agree that the poll reads more like a hipster laundry list than ever before. Not sure why that is. But it amuses me to no end that critic-types (especially on the indie side) slam the masses for having no imagination when it comes to their musical tastes, and then turn around and do the same thing (albeit on a much smaller scale).</p>
<p>*I think the poll was completed before Chesnutt or Reatard passed away, so I don&#39;t think we can blame their placements on their passings.</p>
<p>*I like Mos Def and Jay-Z too, buddy. </p>
<p>*&#8221;No Line on the Horizon&#8221; was not a bad album. I revisited it towards the end of last year, and found it to be much more enjoyable than I initially thought it was. That said, it&#39;s easily in the bottom third of U2 albums. &#8220;21st Century Breakdown&#8221;, on the other hand, sucked. They waited five years to give us a carbon copy of &#8220;American Idiot&#8221;??</p>
<p>*That Swell Season album is a gem, innit? It kinda makes you want to stab yourself in the heart, but it&#39;s really good as far as sad bastard music goes.</p>
<p>*Lily Allen&#39;s album was terrible. I wasted a LOT of money on music last year, and her album might have been one of my Top Five wastes.</p>
<p>*I also don&#39;t find Ingrid Michaelson especially unique. To me, she&#39;s just like Colbie Caillat or Sara Bareilles or any other smiley female singer-songwriter. Boring.</p>
<p>**George, your Grammy argument would hold water if it was solely voted on by musicians and if the musicians that voted were only allowed to vote in genres with which they have knowledge. The bottom line is that the Clive Davises of the world are allowed to vote as well, and they&#39;re going to vote based on money and allegiance and not actual talent. It&#39;s why the Black Eyed Peas have four Grammy Awards and Led Zeppelin has none.</p>
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		<title>By: George Bounacos</title>
		<link>http://www.sonicclash.com/village-voice-pazz-jop-2010-for-the-hipster-in-you/comment-page-1/#comment-2319</link>
		<dc:creator>George Bounacos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jan 2010 14:31:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sonicclash.com/?p=5296#comment-2319</guid>
		<description>Disco, nice to see you here.  I agree with a lot of what you said here.  I did buy the Yeah Yeah Yeahs but should&#039;ve just bough a track or two.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Totally agree with Jay and Vic Chesnutt. Death sells.  Ask anyone from Elvis to Tupac.  Hell, ask the Jacksons.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I saw Ingrid Michaelson live and I thought she was better than she got credit for.  Too many people I know who actually play music well like Umphrey&#039;s McGee for that album to be at #389.  I think Ben Kweller got shafted too after making such a radical departure for him.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Out of the top 50 or so, I thought Lily Allen was too low and The Decemberists and  U2 were too high. I have to do some more listening.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;But, Money Mike, you and I have the conversation all the time about SoundScan (what people buy) versus The Grammys (what musicians of all stripes vote for) and polls like RS or this one.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;There&#039;s not a good answer.  I tend to like The Grammys because if you&#039;ve stood in a studio and sang into a mic or played an instrument, you get a pass from me on telling me what you think has artistic merit.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;It&#039;s like when I go to a museum.  If there&#039;s a painter with us who has actually sold people paintings, I trust him a hell of a lot more to talk about the technical aspects of the painting rather than me saying, &quot;wow, that&#039;s a cool paining&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Disco, nice to see you here.  I agree with a lot of what you said here.  I did buy the Yeah Yeah Yeahs but should&#39;ve just bough a track or two.  </p>
<p>Totally agree with Jay and Vic Chesnutt. Death sells.  Ask anyone from Elvis to Tupac.  Hell, ask the Jacksons.</p>
<p>I saw Ingrid Michaelson live and I thought she was better than she got credit for.  Too many people I know who actually play music well like Umphrey&#39;s McGee for that album to be at #389.  I think Ben Kweller got shafted too after making such a radical departure for him.</p>
<p>Out of the top 50 or so, I thought Lily Allen was too low and The Decemberists and  U2 were too high. I have to do some more listening.</p>
<p>But, Money Mike, you and I have the conversation all the time about SoundScan (what people buy) versus The Grammys (what musicians of all stripes vote for) and polls like RS or this one.</p>
<p>There&#39;s not a good answer.  I tend to like The Grammys because if you&#39;ve stood in a studio and sang into a mic or played an instrument, you get a pass from me on telling me what you think has artistic merit.</p>
<p>It&#39;s like when I go to a museum.  If there&#39;s a painter with us who has actually sold people paintings, I trust him a hell of a lot more to talk about the technical aspects of the painting rather than me saying, &#8220;wow, that&#39;s a cool paining&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: discoinfernal</title>
		<link>http://www.sonicclash.com/village-voice-pazz-jop-2010-for-the-hipster-in-you/comment-page-1/#comment-2318</link>
		<dc:creator>discoinfernal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jan 2010 08:52:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sonicclash.com/?p=5296#comment-2318</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t really know much about the Pazz &amp; Jop poll outside of its recent history. I can&#039;t say that I&#039;m huge a fan of it, and this year hasn&#039;t really done anything to change that opinion. For the most part, these choices read like a hipster laundry list. I disagree that “Merriweather Post Pavilion” was the best album of &#039;09 (my pick landed at 376), but it&#039;s a safe choice, which could be said for just about everything here. I mean, I know this list is supposed to establish a critical consensus among the most elite music reviewers (snicker) working today, but it really shows how predictable the rock press has become in the past few years. A few observations/ramblings:&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;*The only reason the Yeah Yeah Yeahs “It&#039;s Blitz” has gotten so much acclaim is because it&#039;s basically a TV on the Radio album with a hot chick. A boring synth-pop record laden with moodiness is apparently what constitutes a daring artistic departure these days.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;*Speaking of mediocre synth-pop records laden with moodiness, can somebody explain the popularity of The xx to me? It&#039;s just a shallow indie rock album with a few Timbaland synths. Every time somebody mentions the “R&amp;B” influence of this band, it makes me wonder if they&#039;ve actually heard an R&amp;B song before. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;*Raekwon? Mos Def? Jay-Z? [insert stuff white people like reference here]&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;*Had they not died right at the end of 2009, I really doubt that Jay Reatard and Vic Chesnutt would have occupied the places that they did. That may sound like a cynical thing to say, but honestly, the majority of this list was decided by hipster politics. Really, it&#039;s the same indie rockers and zeitgeist pop stars the rock press has been [expletive deleted] for the past twelve months, with a few left-field choices (Baroness, Converge) thrown in for pseudo-diversification purposes.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;*No matter how many times the rock press tries to convince me otherwise, I refuse to believe that “21st Century Breakdown” and “No Line on the Horizon” are anything less than crap.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;*The Swell Season&#039;s “Strict Joy” got pushed down to 171? [expletive deleted]&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I guess this is my humble way of saying I don&#039;t really care for it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#39;t really know much about the Pazz &#038; Jop poll outside of its recent history. I can&#39;t say that I&#39;m huge a fan of it, and this year hasn&#39;t really done anything to change that opinion. For the most part, these choices read like a hipster laundry list. I disagree that “Merriweather Post Pavilion” was the best album of &#39;09 (my pick landed at 376), but it&#39;s a safe choice, which could be said for just about everything here. I mean, I know this list is supposed to establish a critical consensus among the most elite music reviewers (snicker) working today, but it really shows how predictable the rock press has become in the past few years. A few observations/ramblings:</p>
<p>*The only reason the Yeah Yeah Yeahs “It&#39;s Blitz” has gotten so much acclaim is because it&#39;s basically a TV on the Radio album with a hot chick. A boring synth-pop record laden with moodiness is apparently what constitutes a daring artistic departure these days.</p>
<p>*Speaking of mediocre synth-pop records laden with moodiness, can somebody explain the popularity of The xx to me? It&#39;s just a shallow indie rock album with a few Timbaland synths. Every time somebody mentions the “R&#038;B” influence of this band, it makes me wonder if they&#39;ve actually heard an R&#038;B song before. </p>
<p>*Raekwon? Mos Def? Jay-Z? [insert stuff white people like reference here]</p>
<p>*Had they not died right at the end of 2009, I really doubt that Jay Reatard and Vic Chesnutt would have occupied the places that they did. That may sound like a cynical thing to say, but honestly, the majority of this list was decided by hipster politics. Really, it&#39;s the same indie rockers and zeitgeist pop stars the rock press has been [expletive deleted] for the past twelve months, with a few left-field choices (Baroness, Converge) thrown in for pseudo-diversification purposes.</p>
<p>*No matter how many times the rock press tries to convince me otherwise, I refuse to believe that “21st Century Breakdown” and “No Line on the Horizon” are anything less than crap.</p>
<p>*The Swell Season&#39;s “Strict Joy” got pushed down to 171? [expletive deleted]</p>
<p>I guess this is my humble way of saying I don&#39;t really care for it.</p>
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